One of my pet peeves about my DVD player (a Pioneer DV-505, firmware revision 1.304/4) is the fact that certain discs have significant audio sync problems with it. Accordingly, I have created this page to document all of the information I have on this important topic. If you want to add something to this page, please email me. Please note that this campaign will only involve Pioneer DVD players.
What Is The Problem? | How Can I Tell If I Have This Problem? | Individual Sensitivity To The Problem | The Movie Itself | The DVD Itself | Players Affected | Firmware Revisions Affected | The Dolby Digital Processor | Subjective Comparison Testing | Objective Testing | What Causes It? | My Visit To Pioneer Australia | Conclusions | Further Testing | How Do I Fix It? | Pioneer's Official Response | Other Options To Fix The Problem | Rectification Summary
I have collected quite a considerable amount of statistical information about this problem, and it has become clear that not all Pioneer players are affected, not all versions of the same Pioneer player are affected, and not all discs are affected. You could go for a long time and never see the problem rear its ugly head, or it could trouble you quite frequently. However, if you see the problem on a particular disc, then you will always be able to reproduce the problem on that disc.
As I have subsequently discovered, this is a multifactorial problem. The factors that come into play are;
Note that there is another audio sync issue with some non-Pioneer players which leads to the audio sync progressively becoming more and more out of step with the video which can be corrected by stopping and restarting the disc. This problem is not the one at issue here.
You need to hook up both the digital audio output and the analogue audio output of your DVD player at the same time and listen to them both at the same time. For the majority of people out there, the simplest way to do this is to hook the digital output of the DVD player up to your Dolby Digital processor and the analogue output of your DVD player up to your TV audio inputs.
Balance the sound levels separately so that the TV audio output and the Dolby Digital audio output are at approximately the same level.
Now, listen to any DVD with both audio signals going at the same time. If the sound has a hollow quality or sounds like it is echoing, then your setup introduces a delay into the digital audio and you will be prone to the audio sync problem.
This is a very sensitive test, and most DVD players will exhibit this effect to a certain extent. Pioneer DVD players exhibit this effect far more than any other DVD player that I have tested to date.
Take a look at Chapter 2, watching both Adam Sandler's lips and Steve Buscemi's lips during their speeches. If they are spot-on sync-wise, then you do not have the audio sync problem. If they are noticeably out of sync, particularly noticeable at the start of sentences, then you do have the audio sync problem.
Watch the sequence from 40:14 to 41:27. This is the second half of Chapter 9. Take particular note of Faye speaking. If all you get is a vague sense of unease that something is not quite right, then you do not have the audio sync problem. If you notice that the audio and video sync are severely and unmistakeably out, then you are affected by this problem.
Ver X.xxx/x
AV1 3.3Xxxx
To display the firmware on a Pioneer DV-525 (and presumably other newer Pioneer players of the DV-x2x range and above), follow this procedure;
Player | Firmware Version | Affected |
Pioneer DV-414 | Ver 1.224/4
Ver 2.274/3 Ver 2.274/4 |
Yes
No No |
Pioneer DV-505 | Ver 1.036/8
Ver 1.110/8 Ver 1.210/8 Ver 1.304/4 Ver 1.378/8 Ver 1.418/8 |
No-one anonymous report
Yes No-one report Yes Yes Yes |
Pioneer DV-515 | Ver 1.224/4 | Yes |
Pioneer DV-525 | ? | Yes |
Pioneer DV-606D | Ver 1.088/8 | Yes |
Pioneer DV-717 | Ver 1.224/4
Ver 2.274/4 |
Yes
No |
Pioneer DVL-909 | Ver 1.036/8
Ver 1.408/8 |
Yes
Yes |
A general conclusion that can be drawn from the above data is that any firmware which is version 1.xxx/x has the problem, and any firmware which is version 2.xxx/x seems to be less likely to have the problem.
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Overall, 2/3rds of Pioneer DVD player owners reported
having an audio sync problem. Sorting these results by firmware revision
is very revealing as the following graphs demonstrate. Approximately 3
out of 4 Pioneer DVD player owners with version 1.xxx firmware report having
an audio sync problem. This proportion is approximately reversed for version
2.xxx firmware.
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Yamaha and Sony Dolby Digital receivers seem to be more prone to exhibiting the audio sync problem than do Pioneer Dolby Digital receivers. The survey results on this particular aspect of the problem are quite revealing, showing what a significant difference the brand of Dolby Digital makes on the audio sync problem.
I performed the analogue vs digital delay test on both a Denon AVD-2000 Dolby Digital Decoder and a Pioneer VSA-E07 Dolby Digital amplifier. This revealed a significant difference in the overall delay inserted into the digital signal between these two Dolby Digital processors, of the order of 10% less delay with the Pioneer decoder. Whilst this is not a large difference, I believe it is a significant enough difference to reflect the differing rates of audio sync problems reported above.
The players were all hooked in turn into a Denon AVD-2000 Dolby Digital processor via the same digital coaxial input. The output of the Denon AVD-2000 was directly fed to 3 stereo power amplifiers. The video was displayed on a Loewe Art-95 TV via a direct connection from the DVD player S-Video output.
The passages used for testing were the ones listed under Subjective Tests above.
Pioneer DV-717, firmware revision 2.284/4, non-region modified: Subjectively, sync was much better than with the Pioneer DV-505. However, the passages were not completely in sync to critical inspection, particularly The Wedding Singer opening speech and Pulp Fiction.
Pioneer DV-525, non-region modified: This DVD player gave the same results on these passages as the Pioneer DV-717.
Toshiba 2109, region modified: Sync was better again, with the only passage that may have been just barely out of sync being The Wedding Singer Best Man speech.
Noriko DVD-390K, region modified: All passages were perfectly in sync.
The procedure involves connecting the left analogue output of a DVD player to the left line input of a Soundblaster card and at the same time connecting the center Dolby Digital output from the Dolby Digital processor to the right line input of the Soundblaster card.
I then recorded the same test passage over and over again only changing the DVD player between recordings. I then compared the digitized left and right waveforms to determine the degree of delay between the analog audio output and the digital audio output.
For this particular series of tests, I used The Wedding Singer Remaster 2 DVD, and used the early part of Steve Buscemi's speech as the reference recording. In particular, I took measurements of the sound of his glass clinking.
I used an Audio CD (The Sheffield Drum CD) as a reference
to compare all of these measurements to. In addition, I also measured the
delay introduced by an NTSC DVD. A Denon AVD-2000 was the Dolby Digital
processor utilized for these tests.
Player |
(Sheffield Drum Record) |
(The Wedding Singer) |
(Air Force One) |
Pioneer DV-505 |
|
|
|
Pioneer DV-525 |
|
||
Toshiba 2109 |
|
||
Noriko DVD-390K |
|
In addition to all of the above tests, I also measured the delay introduced on the Pioneer DV-505 with two discs that have no subjective audio sync problems; The Big Hit and A Bug's Life.
Both of these discs showed exactly the same analogue versus digital delay as The Wedding Singer, and yet they have no subjective audio sync problem.
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To measure the effect that the Dolby Digital processor
has on this problem, additional objective testing was done with a Pioneer
VSA-E07 Dolby Digital amplifier, and this revealed the following results.
Player |
(Jesus Christ Superstar Original Broadway Cast Recording) |
(The Matrix) |
Pioneer DV-717 |
|
|
Start SD-2010VNK |
|
From the above results, it is clear that that Dolby Digital decoder does play a role, albeit a small one, in the problem, with the Pioneer VSA-E07 showing an overall system delay of 26 milliseconds vs 28 milliseconds for the Denon AVD-2000.
Multiple factors are involved; the source material itself, the DVD mastering, the DVD player, the DVD player's firmware revision, and the Dolby Digital processor, but the major contributor to the problem is the delay inserted by the DVD player.
"As a retailer, let me inform you what Pioneer has told me about the AUDIO SYNC problem. Pioneer has found that the problem is caused by Macrovision and can be fixed by an upgrade, however Pioneer does not and can not upgrade it. It mainly affects Modified units, those with an S in their model number or a green dot on the side of the originl carton. Pioneer have upgraded the macrovision on their units from March of this year and so those units after this date should not experience the problem."
I do not believe the problem has anything to do with zone modifications or macrovision modifications, as owners of both Region 4 only machines and modified machines report audio sync problems with the same frequency.
The equipment used for the demonstration consisted of a Pioneer DV-717 DVD player, firmware revision 2.274/8 with its digital output feeding a Pioneer VSX-D908 Amplifier. The display device used was a very tasty looking PDP-502MXE plasma flat panel display, through a composite input.
The discs used for the test were; The Wedding Singer, both the first and second remasters, Rounders, 54 and The Specialist. These are all discs that suffer notoriously from the audio sync problem.
Basically the demonstration consisted of comparing the same passages of these DVDs on the current DV-717 model with the output from my DV-505 model into the same equipment.
Here's the interesting part. NO AUDIO SYNC PROBLEM COULD BE DEMONSTRATED on EITHER DVD player. Not believing my eyes, I returned home and reconnected my DVD player to my Denon AVD-2000 Dolby Digital processor. The audio sync problem returned, and was the same as before.
OK, I hear you say - it's the Denon Dolby Digital processor! Not necessarily. The same processor being driven by a Noriko DVD-390K DVD player with the same disc passages shows no audio sync problem.
My current theory about this problem now goes as follows;
There is something about the Dolby Digital data stream coming out of the older Pioneer DVD players (firmware v1.xxx/x) that causes some Dolby Digital decoders to insert a very slight delay into their decoding process. Whatever this something is, it seems to be present on Village Roadshow discs.
I will be continuing to research this problem and possible fixes for it with the enthusiastic cooperation of Pioneer Australia (they want to see this issue resolved as much as we do) and will keep you all informed of progress.
This semi-fix seems to work for the disc that is currently inserted, and possibly for any others that are inserted following this until the player is powered down with either the remote control or with the main power switch, though I'm still checking that.
I can offer no logical explanation for why this procedure improves the audio sync, but it does.
"
How to determine the player’s (DV-414) Firmware version:
1 Turn on TV and DV-414 with no disc in it
2 Press MENU on DV-414 remote
3 Select INITIAL and press ENTER
4 Make sure OSD is highlighted and press DISPLAY
Here's what it says for my DV-414 manufactured October 1998:
OSD SET.
Region: 1
Ver:1.184/4 (You better hope yours doesn’t match this)
AV1:3.32'C'
I bought a DV-414 manufacture code of december 1998 with firmware of
OSD SET.
Region: 1
Ver:1.184/4
AV1:3.32'C'
I also saw the very noticeable Lip synch problems ON A FEW movies
others had noted as well. I did my reasearch, called Pionneer informed
them of the issue, ETC., ETC., They gave me no solution. Well this
weekend I rented "Urban Legand" and the Lip Synch reared it's upgly
head again. It was really noticeable at the begining of the movie.
Well I was fed up with it. So, I went to my local Best Buy store, and
bought a unit with the latest manufacture code I could find. When I
checked the new unit, it said
OSD SET.
Region: 1
Ver:2.274/4
AV1:3.32'C'
I had not seen this firmware mentioned anywhere, so it's probably the
latest or close to it. I opened up both machines, and swapped the main
logic board. It was easy, just remove a few cover screws, then remove
the logic board by removing another few screws and some cables attached
to it. I then swapped logic boards with my new and old machine. My
old machine now read Ver:2.74/4 firmware. I put the EXACT same DVD in
my old machine with the new logic board, and whola, I would say about
90% of the lip synch probolem was GONE by swapping the logic board
ONLY. I had someone else look as well and they agreed. I think this
put's it to a rest that the newer firmware helps to cure the problem."
Pioneer's position remains as follows for Australian owners of Pioneer DV-515 and DV-717 DVD players, which are less than 12 months old (and hence still covered under warranty - which I believe is pretty much all of them):
Any owner of a Pioneer DV-515 or DV-717 DVD player with a firmware revision of 1.xxx/x will be able to upgrade their firmware to revision 2.xxx/x if they wish to have this done at no charge so long as the DVD player is less than 12 months old.
VERY IMPORTANT: This firmware upgrade will nullify any region modification that has been made to these units and will make them Region 4 only DVD players. This particular point is non-negotiable with Pioneer Australia since the official position of Pioneer Australia is that they did not and never have performed region modifications to their DVD players, regardless of what you may have been told by the dealer who sold you the DVD player.
Be aware that this won't fix everyone's problem, and for those of you with firmware revision 2.xxx/x already who have a sync problem, or those of you that have this upgrade performed and still suffer from an audio sync problem, there is nothing that can be done to resolve your problem in your setup short of buying a new DVD player (or possibly a new receiver).
As mntioned above, Pioneer Australia will upgrade under warranty any DV-515 or DV-717 which is less than 12 months old, but this will nullify any region modification. If this is not a satisfactory solution, or your player is more than 12 months old, The DVD Shop can upgrade and remodify your DV-414, DV-515, or DV-717 player. The modification/upgrade has the following features;
The DVD Shop normally charge $100 for this modification/upgrade. They have offered to perform this upgrade for readers of Michael D's Region 4 DVD Info Page for $80. You'll need to mention Michael D's Region 4 DVD Info Page to get this special price.
Step 2: Proceed according to Player and Firmware Revision
Solution: Firmware Upgrade performed by The DVD Shop for $80. Will fix the majority of lip sync problems. Will retain multi-region and macrovision disable capability of the player.
Solution: Firmware Upgrade performed by The DVD Shop for $80. Will fix the majority of lip sync problems. Will retain multi-region and macrovision disable capability of the player.